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0:02
Hello, you are listening to call to homeschool episode #275 Arguments Against Homeschooling.
Friends, how are you doing?
I was researching the other day just looking up different things homeschooling because that's what cool moms do I guess in their spare time.
0:20
And I happened to come across an article called 5 arguments Against Homeschooling.
And it doesn't say who wrote it, but it's from the site Masters in teaching degree.
And I found these arguments against home schooling to be such common arguments and such common concerns that I thought I would address them and do a full podcast episode against this because for a couple reasons I thought it was interesting.
0:45
I just love to see both sides of things.
So I actually don't mind reading stuff like this because I like to know, I like to understand where people are coming from, some fears they have, some concerns they have.
I Love Actually knowing that when we read about war, sometimes we will actually study both sides.
1:01
So one thing that we did that with what was the Civil war of the US and we read some variations of the war from the North, and we also read variations of the North from the South.
And it's just so fascinating to get a full picture.
So this one's great for just to give understanding, but also if maybe you have some of these concerns and some of these arguments or if you have family members who are like, hey, I heard XYZ and you would love to say, hey, check out this awesome podcast for my friend Meg.
1:30
This will really help answer a lot of those questions and concerns you have.
So I hope that this will be really helpful for you today.
So the article starts with this paragraph.
Homeschooling has become immensely popular in the West, with several million children now being homeschooled by their parents or in Co-op homeschools.
1:48
But in spite of its surging popularity, homeschooling can be harmful to some children, their social development, and even their parents.
OK, let's pause right there.
This isn't even the top five things.
This is just already saying that homeschooling can be harmful to some children.
2:06
OK, that was interesting.
I guess like just being alive can be having children, being raised by humans can be harmful to some children if you wanted to lump it and stuff like that.
But I what I ended up doing is going down a rabbit hole of searching stats on abuse of homeschooled kids and kids in public school and kind of looking at some of those things.
2:26
So what I found was while most homeschooled children are not abused, homeschooling can be used by abusers to isolate children and to conceal abuse, which is so interesting.
Yes, that totally can happen.
2:41
I'm not trying to pretend that that can't happen.
But for my kid who was abused, I was in the public school system.
Nobody was checking in on me.
If anything, I had terrible behavior issues because I was being abused so much, and I just got in more trouble at school.
And so just by thinking that by coming to a public school like we're going to expose all these kids who are being abused is a ridiculous argument.
3:05
But let's see.
So it's saying that it can make it harder for children to get help and report abuse.
I don't see that it was any easier being in the school system to report abuse.
But it's interesting because statistically, homeschooled children are abused significantly less than children within public school just by their parents.
3:24
So according to the federal child abuse statistics, .3% of child abuse deaths involved homeschooled children, while 15.2% involved children who were not homeschooled.
So the chances are much are less likely that a child is abused by homeschooled parents.
3:42
So it was interesting to think it was be harmful to some children and maybe the argument with that when homeschooled children's chances of being abused, the statistics of it, they are abused much, much less.
So a survey found that homeschoolers are 257% less likely to be sexually abused than public school students.
4:06
How we say this, right?
According to Maranto, in 2021, estimates of child abuse rates have declined in recent decades, even as homeschooling has grown.
So if you were arguing that homeschool kids are the ones getting abused, as more kids start to homeschool, those numbers are decreasing.
4:26
In 2021, Dale's found no clear evidence that states that relaxed homeschooling laws or bans have seen an increase in reported child maltreatment.
So what's crazy is a child is so much more likely to be abused just within the public schools, not even within their parents and, and in the home, but actually at the school.
4:44
So in a 2000 survey, the American Association of University Women reported 81% of students experience sexual harassment in school. 83% of girls have been sexually harassed, 78% of boys have been sexually harassed.
5:00
And this could be from peers, it could be from teachers, it could be anyone.
It says 38% of the students were harassed by teachers or school employees.
So just that little line they threw in that they could be harmful to some children.
I'm not going to try to pretend that that every family that homeschool is 100% safe from abuse.
5:22
No, But the statistics are already showing that it is less likely for homeschoolers to be abused, sexually abused.
Any of those stats that I show have shown even as the homeschool number has increased, that the numbers of abuse has decreased.
5:37
So just a really interesting to have that they threw in that statement that it is could be harmful when statistics show that it is less likely that they are abused by being at home.
All right, so let's dive into the art art article now 'cause I was just part of the opening paragraph.
5:55
So the very first thing, the very first argument against home school was financial strain.
Now this one is interesting because I think this one has a point to it.
It is a sacrifice to decide to homeschool.
I know some people call it a privilege that like it's one of the things that you think you're better than other people because you homeschool.
6:15
No, it's a sacrifice and it's a sacrifice I would do again and again a million times over.
And so finances are one of the places that can be challenging, but just because something is challenging doesn't mean that you shouldn't do it.
My husband has always been self-employed, even from day one when he we first got married, he was self-employed.
6:36
And we go through seasons of feast and we go through seasons of famines.
And what's crazy enough is some of the famineers of home school are our favorite because we had to get so much more creative of what we would do because we couldn't just go out to the movies or go out to eat.
6:52
We'd be really creative.
And so we went into the mountains a lot, we went on a ton of hikes, we went to lakes, we did things that were just a lot of fun that was free.
And we had so much fun doing it.
It made me really intentional with curriculum of making sure like, I'm only going to buy something if I know we're going to love it.
7:10
And so I didn't buy stuff Willy nilly.
So I didn't have all this extra junk lying around the house that I was just really intentional with what we were going to use.
What's interesting is I was looking at this with finances.
So I started coaching how many years ago And I don't, I don't even know that I could say I work part time.
7:29
I work part, part time.
So I still work pretty, not a whole lot of hours.
But if I were to go work full time, especially when all my kids were home, I wouldn't have to put them in daycare, right, Especially until they were in school.
And so I started looking up how much daycare costs.
7:46
And so I'm sure every state is different.
So I just had to find national averages and what I found is the typical daycare program charges between 800 to $1200 a month.
I have seven kids, so that means I could be roughly around $7000 a month.
8:03
So I would have to have a pretty amazing job making a lot of money that would cover all of the daycare and then have enough for just like fun expenses.
But that doesn't even include all the clothes I would need to buy.
That doesn't include maybe I'd have to hire a housekeeping that doesn't include any of that stuff.
8:21
So I would have to be making a whole lot of money in order to justify that expense.
So as I was thinking about this, the financial stream, I was wondering, would I be making so much more money if my kids had to all be in daycare and other expenses that would come up because because I wouldn't be home all day with my babies.
8:43
So I thought that was kind of an interesting thing to think about that yes, it is like we have less money because I'm not out working full time, but the what it would cost to have me out of the home is way more money than what it cost to have me in the home.
8:59
So I thought that was interesting.
I do supplement our income now, but like I said, I work part, part time and so I didn't supplement for a long time.
And I'm OK with with that because I get so much time with my kids.
And I'm OK that for years I brought in 0 income because of the time I got with my kids and really building this strong foundation.
9:21
And we just always made things work.
And when things would get tight, when we were in the famine part, we got really creative.
And it was funny one time, you know, I think it was the 2008 with that crash and we were eating our food storage and our kids were like, this is awesome.
This is food you never let us eat.
9:38
And they thought it was so great.
They had no idea that we were like really tight on cash.
And so it just had like really fun memories with that.
So, so number one was financial strain.
And yes and no, just the fact that you have kids, they cost money.
The fact that we have a house or if you're in an apartment or whatever, wherever you are, it just cost money.
9:58
So like being a human being alive can cause financial strain.
And it's interesting because it didn't even take into consideration by having my kids home, how much money I don't have to spend with registrations, with even clothes.
And I think about this with, I can't remember what it was maybe a year or two ago, what it was like the hot new shoes like Nike Airs or something like that.
10:17
And I know they're expensive shoes, some type of really expensive shoe, but it was way in.
And like anybody who was anybody was wearing these shoes.
And my kids, maybe I had a kid who knew what they were, but I wasn't going to buy them.
They weren't going to be made fun of in their own home if they weren't wearing the coolest brands, the trendiest outfit.
10:35
So like, when you look at it that way, is it that much of A financial burden of having your kids home because you don't have to spend all this money on fancy clothes?
You're not in all these the like public school still has fees and still has charges that we just don't have to pay.
10:52
So just kind of an interesting thing to think about.
All right then argument #2 lack of qualifications.
And this is interesting because I know a lot of teachers turned home schoolers and they still worry if they know what they're doing.
11:07
And if you remember Karen, my friend and old Co host of the podcast, she has a teaching degree and she taught school for I can't remember how long, a year or two.
And then she had her her oldest son and she was like, I'm not putting my kid in this, in this institution.
And but like still was nervous if she knew what she was doing, if she could figure this out.
11:27
So just by having a teaching degree does not make you feel super qualified or super confident in your ability to homeschool.
It's like just those everybody that gets a driver's license just by getting that driver's license actually doesn't even make you a good driver.
Just like a piece of paper doesn't say you're qualified to teach, you get good at something by practicing it and doing it.
11:49
And so by doing it, like because we homeschool, we're with our kid day in and day out and we're seeing all of their struggles and all their strengths and all the things that they're doing.
So we get so much more time to actually teach them and help them.
But we love them.
We know our child way more than any teacher is going to know them, and we love them more than any teachers going to know them.
12:11
It's interesting on social media, I'll get posts sometimes or reels of a teacher like, hey, how to like not lose your mind teacher 'cause you're with all these annoying kids all day or different things like that.
And I think we're saying that this is better.
Why are we saying that this is better?
So it's kind of crazy.
And then some issues happening in my area.
12:28
I didn't know.
I just asked my sister about this the other day, but they're actually closing a bunch of the schools down and combining a bunch of them.
And she goes, we already have, what did she tell me, 35 kids to a class.
And so now these kids are going to have even more kids per class.
So humongous class groups, a teacher who like a lot of times it's one teacher trying to teach 30 something kids all at a different level.
12:53
So tell me again why that would be better than having my kids home And that makes them more qualified by shoving my kid in with 30 other something kids.
Kind of blows my mind.
But let's see, you are qualified because you are your child's parent and you know them and you love them.
13:14
And also we live in a time and period where we don't have to know everything because we have the Internet.
Did you know what?
Fun fact, teachers don't know everything.
It's interesting.
We put certain professions up on pedestals where we like they, they could do no wrong.
And I'm not teacher bashing in any way, shape or form.
13:30
Don't get me wrong, because I know there are really good teachers out there, but they're also some really crappy ones too.
So it's so interesting to say like, hey, sometimes you do get a really good one, but sometimes you have to put up with some really crappy ones as well.
So just by having this piece of paper does not make you qualified to teach.
13:46
And because we have the Internet, we can look stuff up, we can Google stuff, we can figure things out and even we can then research teachers.
What is it the for college?
They have like, rate my professor.
And I thought, what a fascinating website where you can go in and rate a professor and see why or why not you would want to be in this professor's class.
14:08
And it was so fascinating when my boys last year were thinking about doing college.
And well, one of them did do a full semester.
And as it was, my niece's husband was showing me this website and was like, oh, yeah, you have to go in and research all the professors.
And I thought how brilliant that you could actually go in and do that.
14:24
But you can't do that for the younger grades.
But like how if you could go and pick like cherry pick the best of the best, that'd be a little bit different.
But you, you can't.
Sometimes you get a really crappy one.
Sometimes you get an amazing one.
But you are qualified to teach your children because you love them, you know them.
14:40
And you don't have to know everything, just like teachers don't know everything.
And you can Google things, you can look things up.
You can get you can get help.
My son the other day wanted to ask me a question or write me a note while I was working and he can't spell like I can't spell great yet.
14:57
And he's still learning how to read.
And he gave me this note with everything spelled correctly.
And I go, Oh my gosh, how did you do this?
And he goes, oh, I just asked our Google Home, how do I spell this word?
How do I spell this word?
I was able to figure out and write the whole thing.
So like I'm qualified, 'cause I can teach.
15:14
I show my kid how to learn something, how to Google something, how to, how to make, how to research things, and all of those good stuff.
And because of that, it makes everyone who's willing to put forth some effort qualified to teach their own child.
All right, get ready for me to get on my soapbox.
15:31
Hopping on soapbox.
This one, this question has started to bug me at this point because it's so ridiculous to think that just because you don't send your child.
15:47
I wrote prison in here because I was feeling saucy when I was writing this, but to school slash prison each day that they will have no idea how to interact with the world.
Friends, your child cannot, and I repeat cannot learn social skills by other kids their age who also don't have social skills.
16:07
That is like going to a piano teacher who is your same age and your same skill who can actually play piano and say we should teach each other how to play piano.
Oh, great idea.
What do you think these four fours mean?
What are these circle dots on these lines?
What's all of this?
No, you would never go to a piano teacher like that.
16:23
You would go to a piano teacher who would teach you tempo and rhythm and what all the notes were, the names and how to count music and how to play right.
You would go to somebody better to actually learn how to play the piano.
But like why do we think the only way to learn socialization or social skills are from other kids who have no absolutely no social skills?
16:42
It is so ridiculous to me.
From the article it says appropriate peer socialization is critical to the psychological and emotional development and well-being of children.
Children need to be around other children and frequently.
It's true that there is an abundance of homeschooling groups and co-ops, and these groups provide ample opportunities for socialization.
17:03
However, some homeschooling parents agree that they want to protect their children from bullying and abuse and tend to shy away from becoming involved with other students and parents.
In addition to depriving their children of an environment where they can form many positive relationships, these parents are also depriving their children of the ability to learn to handle bullying and abuse tactics, which are the skills they need to successfully navigate adulthood.
17:28
Oh my ridiculousness.
Have you read or heard of Gordon Newfield of the book Parents Need to Matter More Than Peers?
Do I agree that children need to be around other children?
Absolutely.
Yes.
We all want friends, right?
That part I totally agree with.
But it's so funny that and frequently, why are we trying to remove parents from our children?
17:47
Why are we trying to get rid of them?
That drives me bonkers.
But also that some homeschooling parents argue they want to protect their child from bullying and abuse.
Oh my goodness, who wouldn't want to protect their child from bullying and abuse?
I don't know that people who send their kids to public school are like oh man, I hope you get bullied today, hope you get abused.
18:09
Like no they don't want to.
All parents most likely unless you have some major issues, want to protect their children.
Why do we think children have to learn how to navigate being bullying and abused in the 1st place?
If I go to the grocery store, I'm not worried about getting bullying and abused there for the items that I'm buying.
18:31
I would rather teach my child to not surround themselves around people like that.
That may be a possibility to hurt them, to show my children that they get to be picky who they choose to spend their time with, and to be picky with people who are kind and good and loving.
18:49
I don't have to be get worried about being abused around my house or anything like that.
Now, I understand that there are different parts of the world and for some people threats of being hurt are very real.
But for most people, we learn to avoid situations where we could be abused or bullied.
19:07
I would never tolerate that type of behavior in a social situation, in a church, in like a group, anything I'm going to.
I would never tolerate somebody treating me that way.
So why in the world do we think sticking a kid in a situation where we already have very high stats of their chances of being abused and sexually abused are already so stinking high, then saying, oh, but this is going to be good for you?
19:31
The way you're going to learn handles so many skills.
No, it's going to give you trauma and it's going to give you problems.
Like a kid can't leave the school.
If they do, they get in trouble, right?
And so why in the world is being bully and abused a good thing for socialization and a good thing to how do they say to successfully navigate adulthood?
19:53
Respectfully, bull crap.
I don't think any child has to be bullied in order to be a successful adult, right?
I wouldn't want to be in that situation where I constantly go somewhere every day where I'm afraid of being beaten up or I'm afraid of being abused.
20:11
What a terrible situation.
Why do we think that that would be so good for socialization?
So terrible?
So let's see.
Have I ever met a homeschool family that it that doesn't allow their kids to hang out with other kids?
20:27
I haven't.
I've met a lot of homeschool families who are very particular, myself included, of who their kids can hang out with.
Absolutely, because I do want to protect them against bullying and abuse.
But I also do let them sign up for extracurricular activities and they are out on the real world.
20:44
So maybe they'll be exposed to that in a situation.
But then they will have the freedom to say, oh, this is not a safe place.
You, hey, mom, you signed me up for this.
Let's say football class.
What is it called?
Black football class.
And this one kid is like out of control.
21:01
And these are some of the behaviors.
We could do something about it.
But when it's done in a public school system, a lot of times your hands are tight and you can't really do a whole lot.
Maybe you can get the kid in trouble for a little bit, but then your kids just going to get picked on worse.
So I could go on and on about the socialization nonsense, but I'm going to hop off my soapbox and head to argument #4 Development of over dependency.
21:26
OK, from the article it says homeschooled children can develop codependency or over dependency on their parents rather than having a well balanced development of independence by spending time among their peers and around adults other than their parents.
This can often result in the children being ill prepared to leave home as adults to attend college or another post secondary institution and can impact them professionally later on due to reduce decision making capabilities as a result of the lack of independence.
21:53
Could this happen?
Probably, possibly.
Have I seen it happen?
No I haven't when I look on social media and I see young 20 year olds who are afraid of adultering, don't know how to adult.
Growing up is so hard.
I can't move out of my parents house.
I don't want to pay my own way.
22:09
I've yet to see any of those kids be homeschooled.
Maybe some of them are, I just haven't seen it.
I know my home school and my family culture is the exact opposite of this.
I'm trying to help my children to be independent and to be self reliant adults with actually part of our home school lesson plans are all the skills to be an independent successful adult.
22:29
Learning how to defend yourself against a bully.
I don't know how that makes you successful, but learning how all about finances and the in depths of the economics of the country and knowing how to cook and clean for yourself and do your own laundry.
Like those to me are just some of the things that help you be independent, not learning how to defend yourself against being abused at school.
22:49
Let's see, I'm so let's see, I am helping my children to be independent and self reliant adults.
And so far friends, I'm doing a pretty good job because we got four adults and they're doing pretty darn good.
So yes, it could happen, but it could also happen anywhere.
23:04
And so it's interesting to say that that would be something with homeschoolers, which is funny because I've never even seen that argument.
And then finally #5 excessive stress on parents.
I did private school with my kids for one full month.
My oldest was first grade and my next kid was kindergarten, a preschooler, and then two babies.
23:24
That was way more stressful homeschooling that then, sorry, that was way more stressful of that month of private school.
They gave me the courage to home school because I said this cannot be my life.
Getting all my kids up, getting everybody dressed like everybody got to eat, eat, eat, eat.
23:42
Like that hard rush.
We got to drive to the school now.
We got to drive home from the school.
I got to help out of the school.
We got to come back from the school.
We got to do homework.
We got to do an extracurricular activity.
We got to run the family.
We got to cook the meals, we're trying to make time for the family, do something fun.
Look, it was chaos.
I hated it.
23:57
I hated it so much and it didn't even work.
I can't imagine if I had a career on top of that.
And I also had to get up really early and get ready for my job.
Almost going lets us live a slower paced life, a life we enjoy so much more.
24:13
Do we ever have stress?
Yes, because we're humans and we live in the adult, like the real world, right?
But we don't live in excessive stress because we have learned to be very intentional with the life that we want to live because nobody else is dictating our schedule.
Nobody's telling us when we have to be somewhere like what we have to do in our downtime.
24:31
We get to be in charge of that.
And to me, that's so much more empowering and so less stressful.
We had our niece live with us a month.
It was a couple months for it was several years ago and her parents wanted her to stay in school and I had to do the school thing.
And I thought, this stinks.
24:48
I hate everything about this.
And people are like, oh, it's so easy.
You just drop them off then you can do whatever you want.
And I was like, but now I'm on somebody else's timeline and that stresses me out.
And it was so much more stressful to have somebody in school.
So like excessive stress on parents to me.
25:03
I think, well, I get like if you're really hung up on your lesson plans and whatnot, that could be stressful.
But like abiding by the school's policies and rules and everything like that, so much more stressful.
So this was kind of a fun podcast to make.
I got to research a ton of fun stuff with it of just like, you know, I love homeschool so stinking much.
25:23
So if you have somebody who is like, hey, what about socialization?
Maybe you're like, we'll make we'll get on our hot box soapbox.
I mean, or like, are you so worried about the stress or something?
This is a great one for you to listen to over and over again.
Like, OK, great.
This is why I'm doing this.
A great episode to send to family and friends who are maybe worried for you and maybe that's coming from a loving place of like, hey, let me help you.
25:44
Let me take care of you in this way.
But I hope that this will help you in your home school as we get ready for this new year.
Friends, I would love to ask for you to help this podcast if you would head on over to Apple and give me a 5 star review so that more people can get help in their home school too.
26:02
Love you and I will talk to you next week.
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